Can anyone give a little help.

pcdebol · 08-11-2010, 09:28 PM

Ok it goes something like this. I was driving down the street and saw a 24 valve that was in pretty descent condition sitting there with a 2500 dollar sign in the window. I got it for 2200 the body is strait and interior is clean if the damn thing would start I could resell it for 10,000.

First question should I just have a shop run a compression test on it or go buy a diesel compression tester and do it my self. I have never done a compression test on a diesel so I wouldn't know where to start but I imagine it would be cheaper to buy a 100 dollar chinese kit than pay them to do it. How hard is it???

Second I do plan on paying them to hook up the star scan to it. Just to make sure the ECM is working and the crank sensor is working so the fuel injection can keep time and fire. If the ECM is good and it is getting timing signals and the riser pump checks out. Where can you find a rebuild kit for the VP44 high pressure pump in these things???? Or would I be better off salvage yard hopping.

I should have better info either this weekend or next weekend depending on how long it takes the shop to get it hooked up and what they quote me on a compression test.

Do you guys think I screwed up buying it or like me if you saw it would you have said the price was too good to pass up. In this part of the world a semi clean 24 valve goes anywhere from 9000 - 15000.

Worst case their is a 96 12 valve front clip for sale in town right now looks like the bed got hit by a train but the motor still starts and runs for 1200. Figured I could buy that one and swap motors if the block is cracked or something like that.

Compcowboy · 08-11-2010, 09:52 PM

no kit to rebuild a vp44. but a remanned one. check the lift pump out though before you do anything. with a bad one you will kill a vp quickly. compression is easy with the right tool. should be high 300s. post more info as you get it. check out the front end parts, joints and bearings.

**Polaraco** · 08-11-2010, 10:58 PM

VP44's are nightmares. Even with the pgrades in the rebuilds, they still leak. Bosch really screwed up onthose. . .

Disconnect the grid heater and try some ether. You can crack an injector line and see if you get a squirt.

Lift pump won't prevent it from starting, but as Chris said, shortens the lifr opf the pump allot if it's not working

Do you smell fuel in the oil? That usually means worn rings in those older motors

pcdebol · 08-11-2010, 11:29 PM

Going to pick it up this weekend. So I really haven't got to take a look at it yet. All I know for sure is it will turn over so the motor isn't locked up. Which means either I am lacking in the compression dept or not delivering fuel. My guess would be fuel.

I have found a complete top end rebuild kit for 800 dollars. That includes a new head all pistons rods gaskets ect. All new boxed cummins parts. The guy selling it doesn't know if its a common rail or 24v kit though. I can't tell just looking at it. I am guessing my fingers will catch on fire if I touch it though.

**Polaraco** · 08-12-2010, 06:23 AM

could be a simple crank sensor or speed sensor

If it's the same as the gassers of that era, it needs three things to at least start.

Crank sensor
speed sensor (On the trans)
Fuel

Rockwerx · 08-12-2010, 08:20 AM

I would start with the simple things first. Change the fuel filters and check if the lift pump is working. I have seen many of those engines fail to start because the fuel filters were not changed enough and the extra load on the fuel system caused the lift pump to fail which in turn caused the VP44 to fail. As I recall you can get upgraded VP44 pumps if you have to replace yours. Hopefully you can get it running without a lot of trouble!

**Polaraco** · 08-12-2010, 11:03 AM

The fuel system is usually the big one on those.

pcdebol · 08-15-2010, 08:13 PM

Fuck me this truck is getting hard to track when I first posted I had called the guy and he told me to bring him a check in the morning and it was mine. Then he did a vanishing act supposed to meet him again tomorrow to pick it up. Even stranger he says it will start now but needs a new riser and injector pump.

If thats the case the injector pump is working just leaking and you can buy a seal kit for them for about 50 dollars.

pcdebol · 08-16-2010, 01:59 PM

Ok I picked up the truck it actually runs and drives. The air filter was so dirty it was scary haven't changed the fuel filter yet. The only thing I noticed is when I was getting on the highway it tried to choke and stutter but once it was up to speed seemed to run ok. Will check back after filter changes to let get some more advice.

This ones funny when I was driving it I couldn't help but think this damn thing needs some shocks in a bad way. When I looked under it they were missing.

pcdebol · 08-16-2010, 02:06 PM

Oh yeah heres a picture. I think I did Ok on it. 2200..

IMG_20100816_104310.jpg

Rockwerx · 08-16-2010, 04:52 PM

Hopefully it just needs to be serviced! Sounds like you have found a good vehicle that needs a few parts...missing shocks. lol

Good luck with your new truck!

pcdebol · 08-16-2010, 09:35 PM

Riser pump is shot or not getting power don't know which. Changed filter then did the priming procedure just to see if riser would make gas run out no go there. Oh well I was planning on replacing that anyway. This truck is going to be a christmas present for my father in law and I want it to be reliable. The running problem it has is if you gas it hard it kinda cuts out about 2500 rpm surges and finally shifts. As long as you drive it easy it runs fine. Sound like just a bad riser or something else. Doesn't matter if its hot or cold. My brother in law was telling me something about a wire that comes off the alternator on the 2002s causing it to do that.

Anybody know where to find a new oil pan for a 24valve cheap. This one got bounced on pretty damn hard and is leaking all over. Its not dripping just crap and wet everywhere. There was also a bottle of power steering fluid behind the seat and it appears the power steering pump is leaking. Guess I'll have to learn how to rebuild one of those. Rear right brake is leaking also probably have to replace that. Damn I hate bleeding brake lines. I feel pretty sure I will be able to get this truck in shape for under 5 which is way less than I could have bought one in good shape for.

Rockwerx · 08-17-2010, 07:13 PM

Sounds like it is not getting enough fuel. You should be able to hear the pump if it is working. You can install an aux in-line pump if you do not want to drop the fuel tank. It may be a good idea to drop the tank to see if there is any debris plugging up the fuel screen.

pcdebol · 08-18-2010, 03:49 PM

Found the problem kind of. I have an electrical short that is not letting the lift pump run. Lift pump is not in tank on these models so I changed it and got the same result. Checked the relay and it was hot. pretty good indicator of a short in the system. Pump will run if I just hit it with wires from the battery.

**Polaraco** · 08-18-2010, 07:28 PM

cool

Rockwerx · 08-18-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcdebol

Found the problem kind of. I have an electrical short that is not letting the lift pump run. Lift pump is not in tank on these models so I changed it and got the same result. Checked the relay and it was hot. pretty good indicator of a short in the system. Pump will run if I just hit it with wires from the battery.

This would be a perfect time to install a new relay and also run some wire to a hidden switch in the cab.

pcdebol · 08-18-2010, 11:08 PM

Found problem ground wire was broken inside the cable about and inch above the pump connector. Went to Cummins Great plains parts office 1.59 to fix what a mechanic had told the previous owner was gonna cost 2500 plus to fix.

I know it will fix it cause I temp wired the pump to the ignition just to see how it would run with the lift pump working. Thats also how I found the break in the wire when I went to strip it after I cut off the plug copper and all came out.

Oh yeah I also discovered its cheaper to buy a new oil pan from cummins than it is to buy a used one on e-bay. It looks like all that is wrong with the truck is the rear right brake needs to be replaced and the brake system needs to be drained and bled, power steering pump, AC charge and rebuild the turbo. I think buying the brake fluid to bleed the brakes is gonna be the most expensive thing.

You know the damn check engine light will come on after you cut the wiring going to the lift pump but it won't come on when the lift pump is not working and wired in. I hope I didn't get any crap in the injectors had the banjo break on the VP44 when I was bleeding the fuel system and that engine is filthy. Need to steam clean it once I get it waterproof again.

pcdebol · 08-31-2010, 08:23 PM

Ok I have the fuel system redone. But I am having a pretty wild problem. First thing in the morning after I start the truck up and start to drive it runs fine and has power under 1500rpm. As soon as I step on the gas and take it over 1500 it falls flat on its face and will barley pull itself. After about a quarter of a mile it will finally pick up get power and drive fine the rest of the day. Ran a compression test and everything checked out around 380 so I feel pretty sure its not a ring or gasket issue.

One other thing no smoke at all. None on startup none when it falls on its face. None at full throttle. I should be getting a little because I had to get the injectors rebuilt and went ahead and put 50hp nozzles on it. I'm thinking a bad MAP possibly but it never throws a code. Any other sensors on this thing that need a regular cleaning that could cause an issue like that.

pcdebol · 09-02-2010, 10:42 AM

No ideas. Well crap now it is looking like I'm gonna have to start throwing money at the problem and I was trying to avoid that. As this truck was bought as gift for my father in law.

The only ideas I have are a bad MAP or a bad riser in the tank getting a little air in the line that clears up after a short period.

08-11-2010, 09:28 PM	#1
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Can anyone give a little help. Ok it goes something like this. I was driving down the street and saw a 24 valve that was in pretty descent condition sitting there with a 2500 dollar sign in the window. I got it for 2200 the body is strait and interior is clean if the damn thing would start I could resell it for 10,000. First question should I just have a shop run a compression test on it or go buy a diesel compression tester and do it my self. I have never done a compression test on a diesel so I wouldn't know where to start but I imagine it would be cheaper to buy a 100 dollar chinese kit than pay them to do it. How hard is it??? Second I do plan on paying them to hook up the star scan to it. Just to make sure the ECM is working and the crank sensor is working so the fuel injection can keep time and fire. If the ECM is good and it is getting timing signals and the riser pump checks out. Where can you find a rebuild kit for the VP44 high pressure pump in these things???? Or would I be better off salvage yard hopping. I should have better info either this weekend or next weekend depending on how long it takes the shop to get it hooked up and what they quote me on a compression test. Do you guys think I screwed up buying it or like me if you saw it would you have said the price was too good to pass up. In this part of the world a semi clean 24 valve goes anywhere from 9000 - 15000. Worst case their is a 96 12 valve front clip for sale in town right now looks like the bed got hit by a train but the motor still starts and runs for 1200. Figured I could buy that one and swap motors if the block is cracked or something like that. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

08-11-2010, 09:52 PM	#2
Compcowboy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 197	no kit to rebuild a vp44. but a remanned one. check the lift pump out though before you do anything. with a bad one you will kill a vp quickly. compression is easy with the right tool. should be high 300s. post more info as you get it. check out the front end parts, joints and bearings. __________________ 691 HP 07.5 6.7 2500 Bighorn QCLB 4x4 Twin Turbo (64/71/14 over a S400, Dual CP3, ARP 425 studs, 200 hp Injectors, BlackMaxx, 6" Black Aussie Stacks, Walker Evans Wheels wrapped in BFGs, T-Rex Front Bumper, Viair Dual Compressor setup, Snow Performance MPG+, Shibby Intake Horn and more.

08-11-2010, 10:58 PM	#3
Polaraco Trying to stay #2 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Best state of Jorsey Posts: 5,984	VP44's are nightmares. Even with the pgrades in the rebuilds, they still leak. Bosch really screwed up onthose. . . Disconnect the grid heater and try some ether. You can crack an injector line and see if you get a squirt. Lift pump won't prevent it from starting, but as Chris said, shortens the lifr opf the pump allot if it's not working Do you smell fuel in the oil? That usually means worn rings in those older motors __________________

08-11-2010, 11:29 PM	#4
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Going to pick it up this weekend. So I really haven't got to take a look at it yet. All I know for sure is it will turn over so the motor isn't locked up. Which means either I am lacking in the compression dept or not delivering fuel. My guess would be fuel. I have found a complete top end rebuild kit for 800 dollars. That includes a new head all pistons rods gaskets ect. All new boxed cummins parts. The guy selling it doesn't know if its a common rail or 24v kit though. I can't tell just looking at it. I am guessing my fingers will catch on fire if I touch it though. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

08-12-2010, 06:23 AM	#5
Polaraco Trying to stay #2 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Best state of Jorsey Posts: 5,984	could be a simple crank sensor or speed sensor If it's the same as the gassers of that era, it needs three things to at least start. Crank sensor speed sensor (On the trans) Fuel __________________

08-12-2010, 08:20 AM	#6
Rockwerx Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,049	I would start with the simple things first. Change the fuel filters and check if the lift pump is working. I have seen many of those engines fail to start because the fuel filters were not changed enough and the extra load on the fuel system caused the lift pump to fail which in turn caused the VP44 to fail. As I recall you can get upgraded VP44 pumps if you have to replace yours. Hopefully you can get it running without a lot of trouble!

08-12-2010, 11:03 AM	#7
Polaraco Trying to stay #2 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Best state of Jorsey Posts: 5,984	The fuel system is usually the big one on those. __________________ Last edited by Polaraco; 08-12-2010 at 11:06 AM.

08-15-2010, 08:13 PM	#8
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Fuck me this truck is getting hard to track when I first posted I had called the guy and he told me to bring him a check in the morning and it was mine. Then he did a vanishing act supposed to meet him again tomorrow to pick it up. Even stranger he says it will start now but needs a new riser and injector pump. If thats the case the injector pump is working just leaking and you can buy a seal kit for them for about 50 dollars. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

08-16-2010, 01:59 PM	#9
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Ok I picked up the truck it actually runs and drives. The air filter was so dirty it was scary haven't changed the fuel filter yet. The only thing I noticed is when I was getting on the highway it tried to choke and stutter but once it was up to speed seemed to run ok. Will check back after filter changes to let get some more advice. This ones funny when I was driving it I couldn't help but think this damn thing needs some shocks in a bad way. When I looked under it they were missing. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

08-16-2010, 02:06 PM	#10
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Oh yeah heres a picture. I think I did Ok on it. 2200.. IMG_20100816_104310.jpg __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

08-16-2010, 04:52 PM	#11
Rockwerx Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,049	Hopefully it just needs to be serviced! Sounds like you have found a good vehicle that needs a few parts...missing shocks. lol Good luck with your new truck!

08-16-2010, 09:35 PM	#12
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Riser pump is shot or not getting power don't know which. Changed filter then did the priming procedure just to see if riser would make gas run out no go there. Oh well I was planning on replacing that anyway. This truck is going to be a christmas present for my father in law and I want it to be reliable. The running problem it has is if you gas it hard it kinda cuts out about 2500 rpm surges and finally shifts. As long as you drive it easy it runs fine. Sound like just a bad riser or something else. Doesn't matter if its hot or cold. My brother in law was telling me something about a wire that comes off the alternator on the 2002s causing it to do that. Anybody know where to find a new oil pan for a 24valve cheap. This one got bounced on pretty damn hard and is leaking all over. Its not dripping just crap and wet everywhere. There was also a bottle of power steering fluid behind the seat and it appears the power steering pump is leaking. Guess I'll have to learn how to rebuild one of those. Rear right brake is leaking also probably have to replace that. Damn I hate bleeding brake lines. I feel pretty sure I will be able to get this truck in shape for under 5 which is way less than I could have bought one in good shape for. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

08-17-2010, 07:13 PM	#13
Rockwerx Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,049	Sounds like it is not getting enough fuel. You should be able to hear the pump if it is working. You can install an aux in-line pump if you do not want to drop the fuel tank. It may be a good idea to drop the tank to see if there is any debris plugging up the fuel screen.

08-18-2010, 03:49 PM	#14
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Found the problem kind of. I have an electrical short that is not letting the lift pump run. Lift pump is not in tank on these models so I changed it and got the same result. Checked the relay and it was hot. pretty good indicator of a short in the system. Pump will run if I just hit it with wires from the battery. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

08-18-2010, 07:28 PM	#15
Polaraco Trying to stay #2 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Best state of Jorsey Posts: 5,984	cool __________________

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08-18-2010, 11:08 PM	#17
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Found problem ground wire was broken inside the cable about and inch above the pump connector. Went to Cummins Great plains parts office 1.59 to fix what a mechanic had told the previous owner was gonna cost 2500 plus to fix. I know it will fix it cause I temp wired the pump to the ignition just to see how it would run with the lift pump working. Thats also how I found the break in the wire when I went to strip it after I cut off the plug copper and all came out. Oh yeah I also discovered its cheaper to buy a new oil pan from cummins than it is to buy a used one on e-bay. It looks like all that is wrong with the truck is the rear right brake needs to be replaced and the brake system needs to be drained and bled, power steering pump, AC charge and rebuild the turbo. I think buying the brake fluid to bleed the brakes is gonna be the most expensive thing. You know the damn check engine light will come on after you cut the wiring going to the lift pump but it won't come on when the lift pump is not working and wired in. I hope I didn't get any crap in the injectors had the banjo break on the VP44 when I was bleeding the fuel system and that engine is filthy. Need to steam clean it once I get it waterproof again. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

08-31-2010, 08:23 PM	#18
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Ok I have the fuel system redone. But I am having a pretty wild problem. First thing in the morning after I start the truck up and start to drive it runs fine and has power under 1500rpm. As soon as I step on the gas and take it over 1500 it falls flat on its face and will barley pull itself. After about a quarter of a mile it will finally pick up get power and drive fine the rest of the day. Ran a compression test and everything checked out around 380 so I feel pretty sure its not a ring or gasket issue. One other thing no smoke at all. None on startup none when it falls on its face. None at full throttle. I should be getting a little because I had to get the injectors rebuilt and went ahead and put 50hp nozzles on it. I'm thinking a bad MAP possibly but it never throws a code. Any other sensors on this thing that need a regular cleaning that could cause an issue like that. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

09-02-2010, 10:42 AM	#19
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	No ideas. Well crap now it is looking like I'm gonna have to start throwing money at the problem and I was trying to avoid that. As this truck was bought as gift for my father in law. The only ideas I have are a bad MAP or a bad riser in the tank getting a little air in the line that clears up after a short period. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.