Heavy smoke, LOW power, rattling - Page 3

Tonkatoy · 08-07-2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 67King

I don't know. It took a couple of days to throw a code. The EGR makes sense as the root cause. It probably just got so full of soot that it coked up, and won't perform. If it is stuck open, that would cause excessive soot and lower cat performance, and explains the low power issue, as well.

I'm planning on blocking it off today to see how the truck drives. They can't look at it until Tuesday, but I can't leave it then, and I've got to use it to tow the track car down to Road Atlanta next weekend. Been trying to find a local place that sells 4" pipe, but haven't had much luck yet.

Did you try loading a trailer with about 10,000 pounds and taking it for a rive at about 65MPH maybe it will get it hot enough to clean some of that shit out !!!! I know guys around here with the same trucks !They pulll all the time and never had DPF or EGR issues at all !!! might be worth a shot !!!

67King · 08-10-2010, 12:36 PM

Well, crap. They are claiming bad fuel, they'll drain and refill. I don't buy it. It has had low power for a while (I assume "derate" mode is when the PCM limits the power of the engine). And I don't buy that bad fuel will cause an EGR valve to stick open. Supposed to be ready tomorrow at lunch. It'll be loaded with about 5000 lbs on Friday for a four hour trip to Road Atlanta. Maybe that'll clear it all out. Was up until 3:00 this morning working on the track car, I just don't think I'm going to have time to get the DPF and EGR deletes done (freakin' 1/4" steel plate for the flange is hard to cut without a plasma cutter - got the outside done on a bandsaw, but don't have a good way for the inside).

Tonkatoy · 08-10-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 67King

Well, crap. They are claiming bad fuel, they'll drain and refill. I don't buy it. It has had low power for a while (I assume "derate" mode is when the PCM limits the power of the engine). And I don't buy that bad fuel will cause an EGR valve to stick open. Supposed to be ready tomorrow at lunch. It'll be loaded with about 5000 lbs on Friday for a four hour trip to Road Atlanta. Maybe that'll clear it all out. Was up until 3:00 this morning working on the track car, I just don't think I'm going to have time to get the DPF and EGR deletes done (freakin' 1/4" steel plate for the flange is hard to cut without a plasma cutter - got the outside done on a bandsaw, but don't have a good way for the inside).

R U Buying youre fuel from the same company all the time ?? Also run some diesel fuel additive for if there is some bad fuel it will help stabilize it and give you better cetane value !!! Get a good brand !! I usually use diesel kleen or howes !!! Works great !!!

67King · 08-10-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonkatoy

R U Buying youre fuel from the same company all the time ?? Also run some diesel fuel additive for if there is some bad fuel it will help stabilize it and give you better cetane value !!! Get a good brand !! I usually use diesel kleen or howes !!! Works great !!!

I haven't had it long enough to know!!!!! I put Pilot in it last time, Shell the fist two times. I usually use Shell or BP, but I'm less worried about diesel than gasoline (yeah, silly me). It has smoked since I bought it, and I believe it had had a slight power loss before I filled it with Pilot gas. Derate, maybe?

Maybe I'll be pleasantly suprised.

Back to derate. Haven't seen much in searches for it, but I found it in searching for other stuff. I am assuming that the PCM reduces power for some reason or another. Is that a valid assumption? If so, is there any way to tell from pulling codes or whatever that it is in derate mode? When this happens, I can't hear the turbo spool until I"m ready to shift into second, and it has to hit about 2500 RPM even then (miss havig a bypass valve!).

**Polaraco** · 08-10-2010, 07:51 PM

PCM will reduce power if the EGT's, trans temp, oil temp, water temp are too high.

A limp mode, locks the trans in #4 and cuts power too. But for a limp mode, you need a catistrophic failure in one of the engine or trans controls. Believe me, you'll know when you are in limp mode. . . Try doing that with 9000 hanging off the back and go up a hill. . . . .

67King · 08-10-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polaraco

PCM will reduce power if the EGT's, trans temp, oil temp, water temp are too high.

A limp mode, locks the trans in #4 and cuts power too. But for a limp mode, you need a catistrophic failure in one of the engine or trans controls. Believe me, you'll know when you are in limp mode. . . Try doing that with 9000 hanging off the back and go up a hill. . . . .

It is a manual. When it crapped itself, it slowed going up a hill in my subdivision. Next hill, it all but stopped. HEAVY smoke, looked like a misquito fogger, only ten times worse, and a potpourri of colors (black, brown, white, blue - hell, it might have been burning brake pads for all I know). Had to put it in 1st, which is the granny gear, a time or two. Rattled like a can full of marbles at anything over about 1500 RPM. Luckily after that, the bulk of the trip home was downhill (literally), so I coasted. After that, I pulled teh airhorn, and did my best chimey sweep impression in cleaning out more soot than Vesuvius laid on Pompei. Got it to the dealer a few days later with it just slow.

Seems like it might have gone into limp that one day, but has definately been in protect mode. I should know right away, just hoping there might be something the dealer can see that would verify my claims.

Again, hoping I might be pleasantly surprised.

Guess I should get out in the garage, and start cutting away at that flange I started to make. Hmmm.....a TIG/plama cutter and a Black Maxx run about the same. That's a tough call.

conrad · 08-10-2010, 08:20 PM

before you pull that 5000lbs unplug the egr valve before you start the truck in the morning and see how it runs. As for the delete pipe the $250 wasn't worth the time for me to build the pipe myself and I have all the tools..

conrad · 08-10-2010, 08:37 PM

I still think the flapper valve is closing causing vacuume to pull the egr valve open and causing the stuck open code. It still sounds like the valve is acting lika a positive air shutoff wich we use in the oil patch. Kills the air entering the intake and if it doesnt close all the way it will smoke and make a rattle can sound like the engine is flooding. I have had them on a semi and on a 550 ford and now on my dodge. unplug the egr and remove the flap in the throttle valve it is a easy test and should onely cause a check engine lite..

pcdebol · 08-10-2010, 08:52 PM

Sounds like you have a crappy dealer. By bad fuel with the symptoms you are describing I would assume they are talking about non ULSD fuel. That type of fuel no longer exist.

**Polaraco** · 08-10-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Guess I should get out in the garage, and start cutting away at that flange I started to make. Hmmm.....a TIG/plama cutter and a Black Maxx run about the same. That's a tough call.

How's your teeth?

67King · 08-10-2010, 10:19 PM

I unplugged the EGR a week ago, and it was low on power, lots of sooty exhaust. Also before I took it in, I tried running Seafoam through the airhorn where a sensor is. It had a small vacuum at first, but has been under positive pressure (at idle) since then. Not sure why, but it isn't throttled. I have not tried doing that with the EGR unplugged. Regardless, with it unplugged, it runs like crap.

Dealer tells me Chrysler is telling them fuel. ULS has been the law of the land for four flippin' years, another reason I don't buy what they are saying.

Conrad, should have done that last week, but I guess I'm stubborn, and I know I'm miserly. Now it is too late.

67King · 08-11-2010, 07:58 PM

Got it back. Replaced EGR valve, flushed the gas tank (including some detergent), replaced filter. Chrysler claims it is bad gas. Tech said it probably had low sulfer diesel in it. I pointed out that the only diesel that has been available for the past four years has been the ultra low variety. Regardless, one of the funnier things that happened was they asked what kind of gas I had put in it. The last tankful I put in it was from Pilot.

So when they put some fuel in the truck after the flush, where did they buy it? Yep, Pilot.

The only irritating thing is that they are telling me I have to run CRC Diesel Fuel Treatment with each tank.

conrad · 08-11-2010, 09:01 PM

have had good results with power serve or PS fuel treatment and cleaner.

67King · 08-16-2010, 05:48 AM

Truck ran great this weekend. I have never towed with anything as stable as this truck. Absolutely phenomenal. No drivability issues or anything. Looks like my skepticism about the fuel was misplaced.

Thanks all for the help!

pcdebol · 08-16-2010, 09:40 AM

Yeah the Dodge Cummins tows like no other. I've had 20k behind my 3\4 ton and it handles it like its no big deal.

67King · 09-01-2010, 10:26 AM

Finally got enough time to finish making my DPF delete pipe last night. I was prompted by the beginnings of what feels like a loss of power (couple of stalls), and a hesitation in restarts.

Took the cat loose from the downpipe and there was about a 1/8" layer of soot all of the way around.

Anyway, got the straight pipe installed and used splice connectors to intsall 330 Ohm resisters in the EGT harness leads (enabling me to remove them if I need to take it back in). Test drive for a couple of miles, all was well. A bit loud, but nice quick spool, good power. Went to leave for a meeting this morning, and I got a MIL. No surpise. Leaving the meeting, my message center said something about the catalyst being full, and that I'd need to perform service. Looks like I'm going to have to install the delta P resisters tonight.

Interesting, when I tried to pull codes, I got nothing. But, I still have a MIL and the display message.

08-10-2010, 12:36 PM	#42
67King Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 23	Well, crap. They are claiming bad fuel, they'll drain and refill. I don't buy it. It has had low power for a while (I assume "derate" mode is when the PCM limits the power of the engine). And I don't buy that bad fuel will cause an EGR valve to stick open. Supposed to be ready tomorrow at lunch. It'll be loaded with about 5000 lbs on Friday for a four hour trip to Road Atlanta. Maybe that'll clear it all out. Was up until 3:00 this morning working on the track car, I just don't think I'm going to have time to get the DPF and EGR deletes done (freakin' 1/4" steel plate for the flange is hard to cut without a plasma cutter - got the outside done on a bandsaw, but don't have a good way for the inside). __________________ 07 2500 Quad, 2WD, manual - bone stock Classics: 67 GTO and 66 Bronco Roadster Sports cars: 88 944 Turbo (track car) and 89 944 Turbo (S) 07 R320 CDI (kid hauler)

08-10-2010, 07:51 PM	#45
Polaraco Trying to stay #2 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Best state of Jorsey Posts: 5,984	PCM will reduce power if the EGT's, trans temp, oil temp, water temp are too high. A limp mode, locks the trans in #4 and cuts power too. But for a limp mode, you need a catistrophic failure in one of the engine or trans controls. Believe me, you'll know when you are in limp mode. . . Try doing that with 9000 hanging off the back and go up a hill. . . . . __________________

08-10-2010, 08:20 PM	#47
conrad Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: macklin SK Posts: 165	before you pull that 5000lbs unplug the egr valve before you start the truck in the morning and see how it runs. As for the delete pipe the $250 wasn't worth the time for me to build the pipe myself and I have all the tools.. __________________ 2008 INFERNO RED, S&B STAGE 2 CAI, TURBO TO MUFFLER DELETE, SMARTY JR ME, V-LED HID KIT, LED INTERIOR \ EXTERIOR LIGHTS , STOCK TIRE, 10.2L/100km

08-10-2010, 08:37 PM	#48
conrad Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: macklin SK Posts: 165	I still think the flapper valve is closing causing vacuume to pull the egr valve open and causing the stuck open code. It still sounds like the valve is acting lika a positive air shutoff wich we use in the oil patch. Kills the air entering the intake and if it doesnt close all the way it will smoke and make a rattle can sound like the engine is flooding. I have had them on a semi and on a 550 ford and now on my dodge. unplug the egr and remove the flap in the throttle valve it is a easy test and should onely cause a check engine lite.. __________________ 2008 INFERNO RED, S&B STAGE 2 CAI, TURBO TO MUFFLER DELETE, SMARTY JR ME, V-LED HID KIT, LED INTERIOR \ EXTERIOR LIGHTS , STOCK TIRE, 10.2L/100km

08-10-2010, 08:52 PM	#49
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Sounds like you have a crappy dealer. By bad fuel with the symptoms you are describing I would assume they are talking about non ULSD fuel. That type of fuel no longer exist. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

08-10-2010, 10:19 PM	#51
67King Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 23	I unplugged the EGR a week ago, and it was low on power, lots of sooty exhaust. Also before I took it in, I tried running Seafoam through the airhorn where a sensor is. It had a small vacuum at first, but has been under positive pressure (at idle) since then. Not sure why, but it isn't throttled. I have not tried doing that with the EGR unplugged. Regardless, with it unplugged, it runs like crap. Dealer tells me Chrysler is telling them fuel. ULS has been the law of the land for four flippin' years, another reason I don't buy what they are saying. Conrad, should have done that last week, but I guess I'm stubborn, and I know I'm miserly. Now it is too late. __________________ 07 2500 Quad, 2WD, manual - bone stock Classics: 67 GTO and 66 Bronco Roadster Sports cars: 88 944 Turbo (track car) and 89 944 Turbo (S) 07 R320 CDI (kid hauler)

08-11-2010, 07:58 PM	#52
67King Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 23	Got it back. Replaced EGR valve, flushed the gas tank (including some detergent), replaced filter. Chrysler claims it is bad gas. Tech said it probably had low sulfer diesel in it. I pointed out that the only diesel that has been available for the past four years has been the ultra low variety. Regardless, one of the funnier things that happened was they asked what kind of gas I had put in it. The last tankful I put in it was from Pilot. So when they put some fuel in the truck after the flush, where did they buy it? Yep, Pilot. The only irritating thing is that they are telling me I have to run CRC Diesel Fuel Treatment with each tank. __________________ 07 2500 Quad, 2WD, manual - bone stock Classics: 67 GTO and 66 Bronco Roadster Sports cars: 88 944 Turbo (track car) and 89 944 Turbo (S) 07 R320 CDI (kid hauler)

08-11-2010, 09:01 PM	#53
conrad Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: macklin SK Posts: 165	have had good results with power serve or PS fuel treatment and cleaner. __________________ 2008 INFERNO RED, S&B STAGE 2 CAI, TURBO TO MUFFLER DELETE, SMARTY JR ME, V-LED HID KIT, LED INTERIOR \ EXTERIOR LIGHTS , STOCK TIRE, 10.2L/100km

08-16-2010, 05:48 AM	#54
67King Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 23	Truck ran great this weekend. I have never towed with anything as stable as this truck. Absolutely phenomenal. No drivability issues or anything. Looks like my skepticism about the fuel was misplaced. Thanks all for the help! __________________ 07 2500 Quad, 2WD, manual - bone stock Classics: 67 GTO and 66 Bronco Roadster Sports cars: 88 944 Turbo (track car) and 89 944 Turbo (S) 07 R320 CDI (kid hauler)

08-16-2010, 09:40 AM	#55
pcdebol Supporting Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,051	Yeah the Dodge Cummins tows like no other. I've had 20k behind my 3\4 ton and it handles it like its no big deal. __________________ 2007 2500 4 X 4, 5\" TBE, WCC grid heater intake, S&B Cai, Banks InterCooler, Mini Maxx/Smarty/Superchips tuners. Don't ask I just aquired em, 50Hp DDP, Arp Head Studs, Grid heater delete,Co-Pilot with ATS stage 1 trans. Modded VGT working on round three of the turbo mods since round 1 and 2 were a success.

09-01-2010, 10:26 AM	#56
67King Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 23	Finally got enough time to finish making my DPF delete pipe last night. I was prompted by the beginnings of what feels like a loss of power (couple of stalls), and a hesitation in restarts. Took the cat loose from the downpipe and there was about a 1/8" layer of soot all of the way around. Anyway, got the straight pipe installed and used splice connectors to intsall 330 Ohm resisters in the EGT harness leads (enabling me to remove them if I need to take it back in). Test drive for a couple of miles, all was well. A bit loud, but nice quick spool, good power. Went to leave for a meeting this morning, and I got a MIL. No surpise. Leaving the meeting, my message center said something about the catalyst being full, and that I'd need to perform service. Looks like I'm going to have to install the delta P resisters tonight. Interesting, when I tried to pull codes, I got nothing. But, I still have a MIL and the display message. __________________ 07 2500 Quad, 2WD, manual - bone stock Classics: 67 GTO and 66 Bronco Roadster Sports cars: 88 944 Turbo (track car) and 89 944 Turbo (S) 07 R320 CDI (kid hauler)

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